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Fairy-Stockfish Hand-Crafted Evaluation

Stockfish 16 removed hand-crafted evaluation. Thankfully, Fairy-Stockfish still has it!

Thankfully? You know that you can still download old Stockfish versions right? I don't see what value Fairy-Stockfish provides here

> Stockfish 16 removed hand-crafted evaluation. Thankfully, Fairy-Stockfish still has it! Thankfully? You know that you can still download old Stockfish versions right? I don't see what value Fairy-Stockfish provides here

@RwSF75 said in #2:

Thankfully? You know that you can still download old Stockfish versions right?

You do know who you are asking this question, right? :-D

@RwSF75 said in #2:

I don't see what value Fairy-Stockfish provides here

Fairy-Stockfish is easier to obtain and build/install, and is actively maintained by Fabian Fichter. Also, the Lichess platform and mobile app both ship with it, so it's known to work and be receiving performance improvements etc.

@RwSF75 said in #2: > Thankfully? You know that you can still download old Stockfish versions right? You do know who you are asking this question, right? :-D @RwSF75 said in #2: > I don't see what value Fairy-Stockfish provides here Fairy-Stockfish is easier to obtain and build/install, and is actively maintained by Fabian Fichter. Also, the Lichess platform and mobile app both ship with it, so it's known to work and be receiving performance improvements etc.

@Toadofsky said in #3:

You do know who you are asking this question, right? :-D

Fairy-Stockfish is easier to obtain and build/install, and is actively maintained by Fabian Fichter. Also, the Lichess platform and mobile app both ship with it, so it's known to work and be receiving performance improvements etc.

The way to obtain and build/install listed in the readme seems to be exactly the same as for Stockfish. You either download the executables provided or make build.
Lichess also ships with regular Stockfish, I don't know why that matters.
The classical evaluation was frozen in Stockfish for years, removing it or keeping it it doesn't really matter, it was not getting any stronger. I don't understand the point of that phrase in the blog post.
Unless Fairy-Stockfish ships with a significantly stronger classical evaluation for regular chess than SF_Classical I don't see what value it provides.

@Toadofsky said in #3: > You do know who you are asking this question, right? :-D > > > > Fairy-Stockfish is easier to obtain and build/install, and is actively maintained by Fabian Fichter. Also, the Lichess platform and mobile app both ship with it, so it's known to work and be receiving performance improvements etc. The way to obtain and build/install listed in the readme seems to be exactly the same as for Stockfish. You either download the executables provided or `make build`. Lichess also ships with regular Stockfish, I don't know why that matters. The classical evaluation was frozen in Stockfish for years, removing it or keeping it it doesn't really matter, it was not getting any stronger. I don't understand the point of that phrase in the blog post. Unless Fairy-Stockfish ships with a significantly stronger classical evaluation for regular chess than SF_Classical I don't see what value it provides.

@RwSF75 said in #4:

The way to obtain and build/install listed in the readme seems to be exactly the same as for Stockfish. You either download the executables provided or make build.

Your question was about comparing Fairy-Stockfish to Stockfish 15 (or other old Stockfish versions):
@RwSF75 said in #2:

You know that you can still download old Stockfish versions right?

@RwSF75 said in #4: > The way to obtain and build/install listed in the readme seems to be exactly the same as for Stockfish. You either download the executables provided or `make build`. Your question was about comparing Fairy-Stockfish to Stockfish 15 (or other old Stockfish versions): @RwSF75 said in #2: > You know that you can still download old Stockfish versions right?

@Toadofsky said in #5:

Your question was about comparing Fairy-Stockfish to Stockfish 15 (or other old Stockfish versions):

You are not really answering anything...
First, it was a rethorical question, and second, I still don't see your point in using Fairy-Stockfish if all you want is the static HCE data for classical chess.
You can download or compile Stockfish 16 or any other old Stockfish version just as easily as you can do it with Fairy Stockfish.

Again... what value does Fairy-Stockfish provide here that deserves that comment?

@Toadofsky said in #5: > Your question was about comparing Fairy-Stockfish to Stockfish 15 (or other old Stockfish versions): You are not really answering anything... First, it was a rethorical question, and second, I still don't see your point in using Fairy-Stockfish if all you want is the static HCE data for classical chess. You can download or compile Stockfish 16 or any other old Stockfish version just as easily as you can do it with Fairy Stockfish. Again... what value does Fairy-Stockfish provide here that deserves that comment?

I can't compile Stockfish easily on Windows, nor do I remember where to find source files including Hand-Crafted Evaluation. To use Fairy-Stockfish on Windows, I go to the link above and open the zip file.

On Ubuntu apt install Fairy-Stockfish does the installation for me and automatically installs updates.

I can't compile Stockfish easily on Windows, nor do I remember where to find source files including Hand-Crafted Evaluation. To use Fairy-Stockfish on Windows, I go to the link above and open the zip file. On Ubuntu apt install Fairy-Stockfish does the installation for me and automatically installs updates.

@Toadofsky said in #7:

I can't compile Stockfish easily on Windows

Here it says that the instructions to compile Fairy-Stockfish on Windows are the same as Stockfish.
https://github.com/fairy-stockfish/Fairy-Stockfish/wiki/Compiling-Fairy-Stockfish#compiling-on-windows

nor do I remember where to find source files including Hand-Crafted Evaluation.

Not sure why you would want that if all you need is the eval command but if you look at the removal of hce commit you can see what files used it.
https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/commit/af110e0

To use Fairy-Stockfish on Windows, I go to the link above and open the zip file.

I don't see any link, but downloading and opening a zip file seems to be exactly the same as regular Stockfish.
https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/releases/download/sf_16/stockfish-windows-x86-64-avx2.zip

On Ubuntu apt install Fairy-Stockfish does the installation for me and automatically installs updates.
According to https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=stockfish Stockfish 16 is available too, and the version available for Fairy-Stockfish is 11.1 which is over 4 years old. The latest official release is 14, so it doesn't install updates(?).

@Toadofsky said in #7: > I can't compile Stockfish easily on Windows Here it says that the instructions to compile Fairy-Stockfish on Windows are the same as Stockfish. https://github.com/fairy-stockfish/Fairy-Stockfish/wiki/Compiling-Fairy-Stockfish#compiling-on-windows > nor do I remember where to find source files including Hand-Crafted Evaluation. Not sure why you would want that if all you need is the eval command but if you look at the removal of hce commit you can see what files used it. https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/commit/af110e0 > To use Fairy-Stockfish on Windows, I go to the link above and open the zip file. I don't see any link, but downloading and opening a zip file seems to be exactly the same as regular Stockfish. https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/releases/download/sf_16/stockfish-windows-x86-64-avx2.zip > On Ubuntu apt install Fairy-Stockfish does the installation for me and automatically installs updates. According to https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=stockfish Stockfish 16 is available too, and the version available for Fairy-Stockfish is 11.1 which is over 4 years old. The latest official release is 14, so it doesn't install updates(?).

@RwSF75 said in #8:

Not sure why you would want that if all you need is the eval command

Interesting! With Stockfish 16 the classical evaluation function was removed, however looking at the result of the eval command classical evaluation still exists somehow. I apologize... I don't understand this, but it is embarrassing. There might still be merit to using an engine which doesn't use NNUE and stictly uses hand-crafted evaluation, although I doubt it.

You seem quite knowledgeable. I am impressed.

@RwSF75 said in #8: > Not sure why you would want that if all you need is the eval command Interesting! With Stockfish 16 the classical evaluation function was removed, however looking at the result of the eval command classical evaluation still exists somehow. I apologize... I don't understand this, but it is embarrassing. There might still be merit to using an engine which doesn't use NNUE and stictly uses hand-crafted evaluation, although I doubt it. You seem quite knowledgeable. I am impressed.

What is handcrafted evaluation (layman's terms)?

What is handcrafted evaluation (layman's terms)?