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Chess Engines, Centaur Chess and an idea for a new kind of tournament

Good Idea! I hope it is implemented in tournaments one day.

Good Idea! I hope it is implemented in tournaments one day.

You can go another way. You play using an engine, but you not only make your move, but also predict your opponent's move.
For each correct prediction you get 1 point. As a result, the price of your victory can be very significant. Perhaps the phrase 'your victory' is not entirely correct. Let's say that 'your victory together with the engine' over an opponent will have a certain price.

You can go another way. You play using an engine, but you not only make your move, but also predict your opponent's move. For each correct prediction you get 1 point. As a result, the price of your victory can be very significant. Perhaps the phrase 'your victory' is not entirely correct. Let's say that 'your victory together with the engine' over an opponent will have a certain price.

I think this is a brilliant idea and something that should work quite well in practice! Knowing when to use this super-power would be part of the challenge. If used correctly you would find the best move that you would have otherwise missed. If used in a dull position, it won't give you any advantage.

It can also throw you off your game. AI may find a winning sequence of moves, but it is very long. Knowing just one move from that sequence may not be enough and lead you to a more complex position than you would like.

I think this is a brilliant idea and something that should work quite well in practice! Knowing when to use this super-power would be part of the challenge. If used correctly you would find the best move that you would have otherwise missed. If used in a dull position, it won't give you any advantage. It can also throw you off your game. AI may find a winning sequence of moves, but it is very long. Knowing just one move from that sequence may not be enough and lead you to a more complex position than you would like.

@dimkadimon said in #4:

I think this is a brilliant idea and something that should work quite well in practice! Knowing when to use this super-power would be part of the challenge. If used correctly you would find the best move that you would have otherwise missed. If used in a dull position, it won't give you any advantage.

It can also throw you off your game. AI may find a winning sequence of moves, but it is very long. Knowing just one move from that sequence may not be enough and lead you to a more complex position than you would like.

Thanks! I think you're right that an interesting feature of this variant is the potential to get in over your head after requesting engine help. I wonder how hard it would be to set something like this up for some pilot testing on Lichess as a new variant. I have no skill on the dev side, but I'd love to see what happens when people actually try it out on the site. I may also ask my local club if they'd be willing to give it a shot.

@dimkadimon said in #4: > I think this is a brilliant idea and something that should work quite well in practice! Knowing when to use this super-power would be part of the challenge. If used correctly you would find the best move that you would have otherwise missed. If used in a dull position, it won't give you any advantage. > > It can also throw you off your game. AI may find a winning sequence of moves, but it is very long. Knowing just one move from that sequence may not be enough and lead you to a more complex position than you would like. Thanks! I think you're right that an interesting feature of this variant is the potential to get in over your head after requesting engine help. I wonder how hard it would be to set something like this up for some pilot testing on Lichess as a new variant. I have no skill on the dev side, but I'd love to see what happens when people actually try it out on the site. I may also ask my local club if they'd be willing to give it a shot.

I would say that you don't just "spend" your points, but your opponent gets maybe half what you spent. Otherwise, it is quite easy to "take down" a higher rated opponent even if you don't care about your own victory point.

Rating systems would need to be adapted to accommodate the wider range of possible results, but that is doable (and if it isn't, it's probably a sign your competition is skewed in some way)

I would say that you don't just "spend" your points, but your opponent gets maybe half what you spent. Otherwise, it is quite easy to "take down" a higher rated opponent even if you don't care about your own victory point. Rating systems would need to be adapted to accommodate the wider range of possible results, but that is doable (and if it isn't, it's probably a sign your competition is skewed in some way)

@NDpatzer said in #1:

Comments on lichess.org/@/ndpatzer/blog/chess-engines-centaur-chess-and-an-idea-for-a-new-kind-of-tournament/5EeoqaZD

Very recently a tournament was played in which players can consult at all times the evaluation bar (no moves) see
https://www.chess.com/news/view/naroditsky-wins-tournament-of-the-accused
This was definitely an interesting experiment.

Off topic but how can somebody be a professor at the university and have a 1200 rating?

@NDpatzer said in #1: > Comments on lichess.org/@/ndpatzer/blog/chess-engines-centaur-chess-and-an-idea-for-a-new-kind-of-tournament/5EeoqaZD Very recently a tournament was played in which players can consult at all times the evaluation bar (no moves) see https://www.chess.com/news/view/naroditsky-wins-tournament-of-the-accused This was definitely an interesting experiment. Off topic but how can somebody be a professor at the university and have a 1200 rating?

@mvhk said in #7:

Very recently a tournament was played in which players can consult at all times the evaluation bar (no moves) see
www.chess.com/news/view/naroditsky-wins-tournament-of-the-accused
This was definitely an interesting experiment.

Off topic but how can somebody be a professor at the university and have a 1200 rating?

Oh, that's easy - I spend much more time studying my research topics than chess.

@mvhk said in #7: > Very recently a tournament was played in which players can consult at all times the evaluation bar (no moves) see > www.chess.com/news/view/naroditsky-wins-tournament-of-the-accused > This was definitely an interesting experiment. > > Off topic but how can somebody be a professor at the university and have a 1200 rating? Oh, that's easy - I spend much more time studying my research topics than chess.
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